The Entrepreneurial Dad with Ben Moore
So I think you need to pay your dreams more respect than you pay your failures. You know, you you can't be paralyzed by fear and what could go wrong. And whilst I was getting more successful in business, my health was paying the price for it. You know, the last thing that I want is for them in twenty years to have a relationship or a lack of relationship with me like I've got with my dad. That they're my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1:The sooner you're gonna be to living a more, I guess, a happier and more fulfilled life doing something you actually feel passionate about.
Speaker 2:Ben Moore is the dad that's proving that not having a conventional relationship with your own father shouldn't be the thing that stops you in life. He's building one of the most creative estate agency brands in The UK right now, and all of that work is underpinned by a very specific mission. We talk about careers, what it's like for dads who are making a career pivot right now, and what it's like to run a business as an entrepreneur. This is farther forward. Dads, hello.
Speaker 2:This is episode five of the farther forward podcast, and I am really, really happy to be joined by Ben Moore. So Ben, I have been stalking you for a while on the across Facebook and LinkedIn, actually, because seen your your property content. Ben works in estate agency, but he's one of the agents who, who I look at, who's really kind of pushing the model forward and doing really, really great things with content. So I've seen your kind of story play out in estate agency over the last couple of years as probably a lot of people have. And so I was intrigued to learn more about you, like your story, where you built all these behaviours.
Speaker 2:You've obviously got a background in fitness as well. But let's start with the standard question. How are you feeling? How's everything going?
Speaker 1:Yeah, good mate. Really good, really good. I just feel as though we need to make this conversation interesting very quick because you probably lost 90% of people as soon as you said the word estate agent, Nathan. So yeah, I'm good mate, I'm good.
Speaker 2:As a guy that works in recruitment, we got a recruiter and an estate agent. If we got a car salesman on the call, we'd lose everyone within.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%. There's a traffic warden next door. I'll give him
Speaker 2:a shout if you want. Exactly. Where did you Yeah, tell us about you, Ben. Let's go back to like the very, very, very early days. Obviously, you you moved into a different area now, but you were born in Manchester.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So I'm I'm born I was born in a I grew up in a place called Middleton in in Manchester, sort of near that Oldham way. Randomly, I speak to a lot of people from over that way or people that I tell them from there tend to know Middleton. I don't know why it's only a small town, but, yeah, I grew up in Manchester, and I live over in the Falk House now.
Speaker 1:So obviously, me and you sort of share an area. We often bump into each other in the pub and Costa Coffee and all the rest of it. So I moved over here about five, six years ago with my now partner to kind of set up camp and be a grown up and sold a business in Manchester and use that money to get on the property ladder. Yeah, I've not looked back since. Loving it where we are.
Speaker 1:We've recently moved again, actually. So towards the end of last year, we moved to a little village called Ellswick. So some more rural files, but yeah, very happy here, mate. Very happy.
Speaker 2:Good. When did you when you look back, we're fairly similar in that. We've always kind of pursued that entrepreneurial interest and gone after startups and launch companies. And I always find that quite interesting from certain people who are always willing to take that plunge and some people like just aren't. When you were growing up, sort of, why did you do it?
Speaker 2:Did you have people in your life at that point who were kind of pushing you forward to go and launch your own thing or what was the situation?
Speaker 1:No. So my, I often wonder that because there was no sort of a role model. You know, my dad's never really been in my life. My mom and my grandparents were never big earners. They had quite conventional standard sort of nine to five type jobs for minimum wage.
Speaker 1:I grew up on a council estate, so it was never around money or anyone sort of leading that business ownership or entrepreneur type path. So I don't know exactly where it came from, mate, but just growing up, I don't know, I always just had an eye on wanting to do something more. Had a very, very good childhood, but we didn't have a great deal. As I've kind of got older, I started to pursue I didn't know where I wanted to take my career, so I've always enjoyed fitness and sport, and I knew what to do something in health and fitness. So for a while I thought, well whilst I don't know what I'm going do, I don't know what the future looks like, I've got no money, I've got no savings, there's no bank of mum and dad, I don't know what I'm going be doing ten years from now, I might as well just start doing something that I enjoy.
Speaker 1:So I got involved with health and fitness in terms of higher education at school and college and university, just because it kind of, I don't know, allowed me to explore that interest. That's something that was a genuine passion. It was only really when I came out of university and I started to realize that there's not actually a great deal of money in sport. Especially at that time when I graduated, there was a lot of cutbacks in the space. I just thought I need to do something to kickstart my career and get me in a position where I can actually earn a few quid and get myself out of my mom's house and, you know, start building a life for myself.
Speaker 1:And when I was at university, started trying to get my degree. I just fell into sales roles. I was, you know, going door to door selling talk talk and home broadband to people who already had, an internet service and home broadband. So I got chased out of Moore Gardens than I can remember, trying to do door to door sales commission only, I earned a few quid doing that. Then when I graduated, I thought, you know what?
Speaker 1:I might as well take that sales experience, try and get somewhere where I can earn some commission rather than being on a minimum wage. I just jumped on Google one night, graduate trainee programs or whatever, and the first thing that came up just by sheer coincidence was a local estate agency and they said, Look, if you've got a degree, we'll take you one. And I had a conversation with them and yeah, got a bit of a crash course in the industry. And after probably only twelve months, eighteen months, I thought, you know what? I can really imagine doing this for myself.
Speaker 1:I think I could do it better. If I was steering the ship, I'd do it in this way. And then the seeds started to be planted then for what went on to be obviously my career for the best part of the last sort of ten years or so. So there was never any master plan in terms of what I was going to do in terms of exploring those entrepreneurial endeavors. I just always think I had this inherent desire within me to want to improve my circumstances, whichever direction that took.
Speaker 1:But it was only as I got a little bit older I realised, do you know what, I need to take ownership over my own shit there rather than working for someone else for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, That makes sense. Let me take you back to and share as much detail as you want to. Our story there was very, very similar back to like the early days. So dad left home for me when I was like three. And I don't remember anything really, the odd kind of going out.
Speaker 2:And there's probably more occasions when we kind of saw each other and went out for a day or whatever. But there wasn't too many times where you look back and think, oh, we had some real, real quality sound together. It sounds like you're similar. I look back at those moments for me and I think that has been a really, really, in one way really helpful because it builds this really weird layer of like resilience, isn't it? When you don't necessarily grow up with a consistent like father for you or your dad, something happens.
Speaker 2:And I don't know what it is, but you almost get to the point where it would like for me, I just think, fuck it, what's the worst that can happen? Like you test so many things growing up, and you probably don't get the advice you need, but you kind of push you forward to keep testing stuff and doing stuff. And I think for me, that's probably where it's come from. But is yours? Do you have a similar mindset to that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think, I mean, growing up in a single parent family, my nana was a massive influence on me. So my mum's mum pretty much like raised me. I'd spend like half the week with her and half the week at home with the mum. So kind of had two parents, but not in a conventional way. Whether or not the dynamic in our relationship and how close I became to my nana, if my dad was there, that might have influenced it and changed it because I'd have more of a traditional type family setup.
Speaker 1:So I'm very happy that things mapped out the way they did because of the relationship that I got from being so close to probably closer than most people would be to a grandparent. But they always kind of enforced this thing of, you're very capable, you've got a lot of potential, there was a lot of love, a lot of care, a lot of encouragement when I was young. And who knows, maybe that did come because maybe they were thinking, oh, his dad's left, need to give him a bit more encouragement than what he otherwise would have. Don't really know, mate, but I think for sure not having him there, I don't feel hindered me in any way, shape or form. I think it's probably the opposite actually, because I got a really good grounding whilst I didn't have much.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of love and a really tight, small but a real tight family, I think that's kind of definitely put me in good stead for later life. And also, I know that this is quite heavily centred towards dads. They They also showed me how not to be a dad. So when it comes to being a parent, and I'll speak more about this, I guess, in a few minutes, but I've got three children now, and the last thing that I want is for them in twenty years to have a relationship or a lack of relationship with me like I've got with my dad, that'd be my worst nightmare. So I think in more ways than one, obviously from a career point of view and personal development, I think it's kind of helped me looking back, but certainly in terms of showing me what a father is not has definitely helped me for, you know, the position that I'm in in my life now with the three children that I'm blessed to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Let's go let's go to your your days earlier in your in your career because you talked about so you moved into a state agency. That's again, me, just another indicator. You need resilience in that industry. I think if you're being conventional, and I don't see you as very conventional, to be fair, certainly from what I've seen over the last couple of but I guess in the early days, you kind of toe the line, don't you?
Speaker 2:When you join a new industry, you'd see what's been done and how it's been done. You join a company, you just kind of do the same thing, I guess. Yeah. What was it like in the the first few years for you going into a total new industry that you that you you kind of gelled with quite early on and then got stuck into?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think, again, I was really lucky. So the company that started working with me, they weren't like a traditional conventional, you know, sleepy, you know, lack of proactivity stereotypical estate agent. They were privately owned but growing rapidly, and they had these visions of transforming the space and innovation and improving the consumer experience and selling properties faster for more money. And that was the first experience I had of the industry. Because without boring people with the details, because I know this isn't really any state agency audience, but the setup was that we worked nationwide, but we had a central hub that had a couple of 100 members of staff in, you know, like sort of telesales people and managers and people overseeing marketing.
Speaker 1:So under one roof in a quite small office, you had hundreds of amazing forward thinking people. So that was like a melting pot of education. So whilst I only worked with those guys for maybe a couple of years or slightly less, It was like a crash course. So the information that I got, the knowledge that I got about the industry really sort of, I'd say it's probably equivalent to a five or ten year career working for somewhere that was maybe a bit more relaxed, if that makes sense. So it instilled like a lot of behaviors and a lot of beliefs that again have served me well moving forward.
Speaker 1:And whilst they were a bit of a whirlwind, but a good company to work for, that definitely gave me that solid foundation to think, do know what? This industry is one that's ripe for improvement. This is an industry where there is gray space, where people are resting on the laurels whilst it's competitive and no town across the country is short of an estate agent. Pretty much every town is short of an estate agent to do things properly, to put some care into the marketing, to be proactive, to be hungry, to earn a commission. It's typically an industry that relaxes, setting its ways, a bit backward looking, not really leading with innovation.
Speaker 1:So all those things kind of excited me. I think that's probably what made me set my first business up back in 2012, I'm going to be honest with you, Nathan, and that's what's kind of kept me going since. Obviously now, in the model that I'm in, we're growing incredibly quick. Our spirit had a lot of growth for a company called eXp. We're a global brokerage, if you use that term.
Speaker 1:We was born in America. We're climbing towards 100,000 agents now across the planet. We've got coming up to 500 agents in The UK alone and you know I'm responsible for bringing in loads of those people and helping other entrepreneurs start their journey. It's definitely come full circle and I feel as though we're improving the industry for the better, just not probably in the way or in the vehicle that I thought I would have been doing ten years ago when I sold that first business, you know, but it's funny how things how things work out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was we, so I speak to a lot of people in from the world of recruitment. And one of the, I think the best piece of advice, think you've actually just just nailed it with that. Like one of the best piece of advice for dads that are thinking about doing like a career pivot at whatever stage in life, they're nervous about joining a new industry because they lose a bit of cash and they don't want to start again, is to go and speak to companies who are genuinely really, really leading in their space because the knowledge will pick up very, very quickly with the skills you've already acquired over five, six, seven, eight, ten years of doing your career will accelerate your growth really, really fast, won't it?
Speaker 1:100%. I mean, if going into a new space or you're looking to embark on a new challenge or you can see yourself growing a business in a different niche that you've not worked in before, I think surrounding yourself with good people that know that space, that can give you an education, and by the way, pay you for it, is incredible. Because I went to university and spent tens and tens and tens of thousands of pounds to upskill myself. And I learned a few things and I had a great experience and drank a lot of tequila and ate a lot of white pasta and baked beans and met some cool people who are my friends today, so I loved the experience. But in terms of actual education and what I learned and how I developed as a professional, I learned so much more in two years working for that.
Speaker 1:Mean, I wasn't making mega money, I was getting paid $20.25 grand a year or whatever for an education essentially that allowed me to go on and make much more money in kind of later life. So that's the way that I look at it. You kind of feel as though, I heard this on a podcast Nathan, that when it comes to your career, you need to make sure your ladder's up against the right wall because the situation is that if you spend years and years and years and years and years and years climbing to the top of a ladder to get to the top of your game, to be the master of your craft, and you get to the very top step of the ladder and you look around and then realise, 'Shit, I'm up against the wrong building,' you need to jump down and start again from step one. So the sooner you can get your ladder against the right wall and start taking steps to climb that ladder, the sooner you're going be living a more, I guess, a happier and more fulfilled life doing something that you actually feel passionate about. People doing things they feel passionate about is something that I feel quite passionate about.
Speaker 2:It's the best advice. Seriously, the best advice. It's the most practical advice, I think, because I've gone through the process and we've just
Speaker 1:spoken to- 100%. 100%. That could have been more relevant to what you've just done in the last few weeks. And you know what?
Speaker 2:And the blockers were this. The blockers were, I'm gonna to take a hit financially. And that was it. Like that was the thing. And then you step back and you go, well, firstly, when you're doing something you then love to do, like you are quite happy to cut things out of your life that you don't need.
Speaker 2:It's very, very easy. And I know it feels hard, but it's very, very easy to save yourself $5.06, £7,800 grand a month by just cutting crap out that you never do, like daily trips to Costa or something, which I know is like really, really small things.
Speaker 1:I don't want that to
Speaker 2:guy who says don't do the whole avocado on toast things, but just little little things. I have a ton of subscriptions that I just never use ever. And and these things, like, they just mount up over time. It's very, very easy to cut your cost to a to a level and then get into another role. And you probably still won't earn as much if you if you know that know there are some that's out there will probably be hitting like, you know, 100, 120, $150 in a corporate career that they that they dislike massively and costs are massive with huge mortgages and stuff, it becomes more complex.
Speaker 2:But for the dads that are $30.40, $50.60 ks a year who are just totally pissed off doing what they're doing, there's definitely an opportunity to change it and slowly starting to test in little side projects that you've always been kind of inquisitive about. And then ultimately, hopefully, they work, starting taking that leap and doing something you don't particularly want to do for twelve months, I'm doing taxi driving, for example, to build diversity, There's always a way of doing it, isn't there?
Speaker 1:There really is, mate. And the way that I always think about it is that at some point in your life, like time escapes no man, old woman, but for this podcast escapes no man. And at some point, you're gonna look back. And when you look back, no doubt there's going be things that worked out, went really well, went better than expected, things that didn't work out that you tried, that you didn't enjoy, setbacks that you had, people who let you down, people that you made lifelong friendships with. But ultimately, you look back on your life, you want to be not full of regret, so I think you need to pay your dreams more respect than you pay your failures.
Speaker 1:Can't be paralysed by fear and what could go wrong. Sometimes need a degree of realism, you need to start getting excited about what could go right. I know it sounds quite wishy washy and maybe like something that someone with a beard would say, but when you start to follow your passions and follow your dreams and follow your gut and what you know is right and what you want to be doing. I'm not saying money is not important, of course it is, especially with children and families to look after, but your life is more than going to work for forty hours a week to pay the bills, be on this constant hamster wheel of trying to survive. And if you can be happy and fulfilled in what you're doing, then I think you're winning at life.
Speaker 1:Are. And you show up in a better capacity that when you're less stressed and you're doing something that fills your heart with joy, you turn up in a better capacity as a dad, as a partner, as a husband, as a friend, as a business colleague. Do you know what I mean? So it kind of filters into other areas of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's mad. What's your mission? Like, what are you You seem really, really driven about estate agency, but I get the feeling there's something much deeper behind it rather than just selling homes for people. I get the feeling there's a bigger outcome. Like, what is it for you that drove you into that space and keeps you moving forward in it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, at the minute, and if I'm going to be perfectly honest, I love selling houses because I like going back to what I mentioned before, there's a lot of gray space in the industry. Know, a lot of people sell houses, a lot of estate agents, sorry, sell houses with no creativity, no imagination, no effort. They take a few substandard pictures, they stick it on right and if they cross their fingers they hope for the best. And a broken clock tells the right time twice a day. Occasionally they get it right, they make a few quid, they earn enough money to keep themselves in business and onward they plod.
Speaker 1:Whereas when it comes to selling houses, we like to put a bit more imagination behind it. We've got teams of people, professional photographers, lifestyle photographers, we've got stages, we've got videographers. We effectively make TV programmes around the houses that we sell, That allows us to stand out in the market for all the right reasons. It allows us to charge a sensible commission to make good money so we can reinvest back into the customers of tomorrow. It allows us to get results where other agents failed and help people move from one chapter of their lives to the other.
Speaker 1:So there's something really nice and fulfilling about that part of what I do and the fact that I get to almost think of my business like a media company that happens to sell houses as opposed to an estate agency that's just going through the motions wearing poorly fitted suits and shiny shoes. So the experience for me is very different to what it might be if you were to sit down and chat to most estate agents. But I honestly think, Nathan, that when I kind of think of myself and what makes me tick, I think I'm an entrepreneur that happened to fall into property. I'm not an estate agent that fancies being an entrepreneur, if that makes sense. So going back to the broader scope of my business, whilst I sell houses and obviously I've got clients on the Filed Coast and I work next on Facebook and you probably see some of the results and the new listings and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:A big part of my role is helping people just like me do exactly what I've done over the last few years. So it was only, with 2023 now, it's only the end of twenty nineteen, I was out of property because, as I mentioned before, I bought a house, became asset rich, cash poor, the money that I had went into putting a deposit down. I ended up working where you was. Last time we spoke actually, was working in the DeVere near Stanley Park, working in the gym, doing shift work, not getting out until half eleven some nights, getting home at midnight, missing school runs, skipping sports days because I was having to be in that spot. I was a personal trainer, but effectively I was a glorified cleaner.
Speaker 1:It is what I was. And I wasn't happy, knew that I wasn't on the right path, wasn't making the right sorts of money. I went through all the fears that you just did in doing Dadversity, but managed to swallow and part those fears and put my dreams ahead of it. I started a business and my life changed dramatically over the last few years. So now that experience has put me in a really good position to help other people that are living a life which is unfulfilled.
Speaker 1:They're not making the right money, they're not getting the value, they're not spending the time they want with the children, they've not got the relationships that they want with their family, with their partners. I'm helping these people do exactly what I did in terms of starting their own agency and kind of growing without the usual risk and without the usual expense. So again, I'm an estate agent, but I'm also an entrepreneur. So the entrepreneur in me now is really motivated and switched on to the fact that I can help people change their lives and change their families lives by empowering them to earn more money and to build a business in their mind's eye rather than frog marching along for minimum wage to what someone else says. So I'm really motivated by that impact to help other estate agents succeed, and I know this sounds quite profound, but we are literally changing the industry.
Speaker 1:Know in a few years we've grown from zero agents to at this point I think we've got four seventy partners now across the country. We're roughly doubling every twelve to eighteen months is the trajectory that we're on. So when I say we're changing the space, we really are changing the space, and we're doing that by empowering people to do things their way on terms that they set. As And long as we can look after the estate agent and the business person, they're making more money, they're more incentivized, they're happier, and they're turning up in a better capacity for their clients, which means better results and a better experience. And as we said, we joked at the start, a recruiter, an estate agent, all we need now is a parking warden.
Speaker 1:Know, agents aren't viewed in a very good light by the general public, so by helping improve things for the agent and therefore improving things in the consumer's eyes, we're then lifting the perception of an entire industry, which means more money, more revenue, and better standards for everyone. So, yeah, the picture for me is much bigger than selling a few houses in Blackpool, if that makes sense. But I enjoy both sides of my business and feel very blessed to do what I do.
Speaker 2:What's the and I think the mission is vital, isn't it? But what's the I remember a few months ago seeing a post from you about fitness kind of underpinning oh, sorry, underpinning your, like, daily teen habits. Seem to lean quite heavily into it. And obviously we spoke there about you having a background in fitness, working at the De Beer at the time and then exiting that industry, it feels like something that you've carried on as a daily habit where possible, I guess with kids. Know it's hard to do it daily.
Speaker 2:But what kind of do you feel like that has a major part to play in your success inside of a state agency? And how often are you committing to fitness now these days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been enormous, Nathan. So obviously, I am not going to regurgitate my whole story because we've just touched on it. But my background is in health and fitness. My degree was in exercise science. I spent years studying the impacts that physical activity has on our mental health and our physical state.
Speaker 1:I know from first hand experience how that helps you show up or not show up depending on how you're dialled in, in other areas of life. There are a few people out there that understand the benefits of physical activity on the human mind and the human body the way that I do. Yet a few years ago I started a business, I had three children, I was stressed, I was trying to be there for my clients, doing viewings, I'm all over the place doing valuations, taking calls, handling admin. And even with all that knowledge and with that background and having been in reasonable shape for my early adult life, I still slipped into this bad cycle where I was busy, was tired, I was getting to bed late, my sleep was suffering, I'd wake up, feel a bit stressed, the kids would start doing my head in, would get a takeaway instead of cooking from home. I wasn't prioritising movement because I was so busy on the phones and trying to grow the business, and suddenly I found myself in a point where I'd gone from quite lean and quite healthy and in a good place physically when I started my business to effectively being obese eighteen months into the process because I just let the pressures of life get on top of me and I failed to prioritize what is ironically the most important thing we've all got our health.
Speaker 1:And whilst I was getting more successful in business, my health was paying the price for it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:When you say obese, do you remember what of weight you hit and where you are now?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm five'eight, so just to put it into context for anyone who's listening and can't see me, or even if you are watching, I guess I'm not stood up. But I'm five eight, so I'm not a big guy. I was about sixteen and a half stone, which is obviously quite big for someone of this height. Now it's well, I've I've been doing it in kilograms. About eighty point five kilograms, I think I am now.
Speaker 1:So probably lost about I don't know what the conversion is on that to 20 ks something like that. Yeah, yeah. And the impact that that's had, again going back to what I said before, on my business performance, I've got more energy, I'm sleeping better, and I'm showing up in a better capacity because of that with my clients. I'm more patient with my children. I'm more present because I feel more level headed, a lot of the stress that I was typically feeling has been washed away slightly.
Speaker 1:And I feel like I've started to get the balance now between work, life, fitness. I always think of my life, to go too deep into this, but the circle of life is much more than just making money. That's important, but I think of it in quadrants. So you've got health, you've got wealth, you've got love and your relationships, and you've got your fulfilment, so something that you feel passionate about doing. So I'm always trying to make sure that I've got the best balance that I can between those four things.
Speaker 1:And one thing that I've noticed about myself in the past, and maybe other dads listening to this can relate, I'm very all in so I've got a Taipei personality. So if I launch a business that I feel super passionate about making it successful, it's like fuck everything else. I'm not going to the gym, I'm going to invest, I'm going to plough twenty three hours out of 24 a day into growing this business. And in some ways, that's good for moving the needle on that particular goal, but it's actually a very negative thing if it means that everything else starts to suffer and your relationships are going down and your health's suffering because of it and you're gaining weight and you're not sleeping and you're not looking after yourself and other things start to wane. So I'm trying to get better at not going all in into one area and sort of better balance those four quadrants, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And I kind of feel as though now I'm in a good place for that. And the reason why I've got myself in a good place is through education. I don't want to get myself obese again because that was not a good place to be in. But also I've removed some of the barriers to entry, so I know you mentioned there about it's not always easy to get to the gym and to keep fit and you can't always do it every day, especially with kids. I can't do that and whether it's excuses or whether it's legitimate reason, were barriers to entry.
Speaker 1:So what I do now, and this is just my preferred way of training, I've got very kettlebells, I've got a light set of kettlebells, I've got a middle set, I've got a very heavy set. I'll get a mat out at home which is in my understair storage and I'll just roll the mat out and for thirty, forty, fifty minutes a day I'll just go hell for leather smashing my kettlebells. I'll train at home in my dining space and for me that works I don't need to travel to the gym, don't need to work in school runs and whatnot. Everyone, however busy you are, you can find thirty minutes. You need dedicate yourself if you want to.
Speaker 1:That's been a really good way for me to kind of break that cycle of excuses and get myself on a progressive path towards improving my health. So it's been huge for me, mate, but I'm training very happily at home at the moment.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're right. I make terrible excuses. And that's the excuse. It's like, I've got to get my gear. I've got to get in the car.
Speaker 2:I've got to sit in traffic. Suddenly an hour becomes an hour and a half. And then you look at it and go, well, it's half ten. I'm too late in the working day. Kids are gone.
Speaker 2:And you do just make these excuses. Reality is like home workout, what guy on YouTube, what do you call body coach chat? Just get it done.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A 100%. And then I don't know, Like, don't know if it's so Joe Wickes, like, I've I've I've to him a few times, obviously, from fitness. Like, I'm not gonna sell out with best mates or whatever. I'm not trying to drop names, just connecting on social media.
Speaker 1:But I spoke to him a few times, and it's like, for whatever reason, his marketing, whether it's just like his style and the way that he is, like, his audience is, like, 80% female. Most of his subscribers are female. Most of the people who are viewing his YouTube videos are very heavily weighted towards female. Now I've followed a lot of those workouts. Again, I've got the education.
Speaker 1:I know my science. I know how my body responds. I know the benefits of lifting weights and doing HIIT training. I get it. What I lacked, I needed someone to hold my hand and be like, Okay, I'm going to talk you through this workout.
Speaker 1:Someone to just get on a camera, just show me what to do for twenty minutes. Let me just park my brain and I'll just follow along blindly to whatever session you're giving me. And just having someone leading the way for me was powerful. And when I got the transformation, he shared it, I had loads of people messaging me, mainly men messaging men, saying, did this really work? Have you joined the body coach?
Speaker 1:Because people think, oh, it's for women because it tends to be women that I don't know if there's something not masculine about working out but not in a gym or doing bodyweight squats instead of being under a rack. People think it's not effective. Do you know what I mean? But it's nothing to do with gender. There's no such thing as a male squat or a female squat or a male burpee or a female burpee.
Speaker 1:Your body responds accordingly to the stimulus that's placed upon it. And as long as your nutrition strategy complements the goal that you've got for yourself and you're moving enough, you're going to achieve that goal of, in my case, fat loss and improve fitness and mental clarity. And I thought it was really interesting that so many blokes couldn't understand that you think I'm always working out from home. Did you say? And like, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I kind of feel like it's more female acceptable, but men think, oh, I need to go into the gym and lift weights and do dead lifts and all the rest of it. Like, it's
Speaker 2:it's What are mentioning? It's like, who cares for shit? It's really bad. That is that's the I think that's the perception, isn't it? Guys are in the weight room, and and and that's it.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. I feel like you're not being or you feel like you're not being productive if you aren't lifting big heavy weights. Just crazy, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It is. Yeah. What's the
Speaker 2:you've got a huge amount of admiration for what you've done and the way you've tried to like reshape an industry, career wise, like your upbringing, everything else, because it's never been perfect circumstances to do what you've done. It's hard to shape a new industry as well. It's really, really hard. I've done it in recruitment and tried and failed on a couple of occasions. So I've got huge, huge admiration for the work that you're doing and continue to do.
Speaker 2:What's your you've got three kids, one in high school, two in primary school. What's your advice to them? And I know this is there's no kind of blanket one piece of advice, but is their is their dad, like, looking at them as they kind of go through school and start moving forward in their in their lives? What's the golden thing you'd give them?
Speaker 1:I it's I don't know, for me, mate, think not to kind of blur the lines too much between business talk and entrepreneurship and the corporate world and being a dad, because the two obviously exist very separately. I think one common goal is that the best way that you can inspire someone, best way that you can empower someone, the best way that you can instil positive habits to last you a lifetime, be that in business or for children growing up, is to lead by example. And I think probably one thing that me and my partner, Becky, do really well is we lead by example. So she's got a business, she works very hard, she's got beliefs around nutrition and what's right and what's wrong morally. I've got my beliefs in terms of business and how hard I work and how I turn up in what capacity.
Speaker 1:Even things like working out from home I was doing a workout only last night. My little girl sat at the island in the kitchen doing a coloring and doing word searches or whatever and I'm next to her absolutely dying to death from burpees on the floor, although she's not watching me and she's very much more interested in her coloring than she is my workout, she's subconsciously taking in oh dad's working out' and I often ask her do you know why daddy does exercises? Why does daddy do exercise at home?' Because it makes him feel good, because it gives him more energy, because we're healthy, because it gives us more energy to go play outside and ride the bike. So they're starting to get this education, this grounded, not by what we're saying necessarily, but from what they're seeing. And I think for any parentany leader, the best way to instil those values is to lead by example.
Speaker 1:I think that's one thing that I'm not not saying that we get everything right as parents, we're far from perfect. But one thing that we're trying to do is get better at showing them the way rather than just telling them if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. And we'd spoken lot on this podcast about this kind of generational knowledge wealth dads are creating for their kids to create the right behaviours for them moving forward. There's a real connection between dads who are doing well in their career, building some really cool things work wise versus fitness versus kind of the knowledge that kids are getting. There's like this intersection between the three, which seems to be consistent with with dads doing all those other two things really well and then delivering against that knowledge wealth.
Speaker 2:Ben, thank you. Thank you so much for that. I've really, really genuinely enjoyed speaking to you. It's been good to get to know you a little bit more. We we don't know each other on a kind of personal level.
Speaker 2:So hearing those stories, it's just incredibly insightful and enjoyable to hear your your kind of story and and where you're heading. I wish you all the all the success in the future as well with
Speaker 1:Mate, I really appreciate it, Nathan. And likewise, mate, it's been a pleasure chatting to you as well. And, yeah, I appreciate inviting me onto the pod, mate, and best of luck with everything that you're through. I build a lot of admiration for you too, brother.
Speaker 2:Thanks. Appreciate it, man. Good, man.
